"WISDOM" teeth

[halitosisux]

Hi everyone.. ive been reading from this site as much as possible over the last 3 weeks or so since i discovered it and its had the most profound effect on me since realising i had a halitosis problem 22 years ago. I hope that i can contribute something meaningful here. Since my earliest recollections in childhood i can remember being constantly teased by my brother and sister about my breath. I hardly ever bothered to clean my teeth or worry about it during that time because i never thought there would be any point, not that i was taught or made to clean them very often anyway. I was a mouth breather due to a deviated septum which doctors told me was very likely to remedy itself as the nose grew into adulthood. Suddenly around the age of 15 this happened and the "who's farted?" comments etc suddenly clicked and from that point i became aware of my own halitosis and it became the ultimate spanner in the works of a "normal" life, both physically and psychologically from the deep-rooted effects of all the taunting - the worst curse imaginable began to manifest itself (we all know what i mean here). Tried to deal with life as best as possible but its like being in the land of the living dead. Everything is just a game of survival. I did a little research (no internet yet) and summoned the courage to obtain a bottle of TCP "MOUTHWASH".. and from there it went, failure after failure. By now my bedroom had become like a small doctor's surgery, but i was always none-the-wiser. I tried everything, i was becoming so depressed because of the way this problem was eating into me and those i loved, and became so distraught that if i knew it were possible to survive by cutting out my tongue at this point i would have done so. I did try a form of "surgery" very close to this, but i wont go into that for now. Then one day i just sat there peering at myself in the mirror in awe at how much this bastard affliction had taken over my WHOLE life that i noticed some white "bits" on my tonsils. I proceeded to prod them with a cotton bud and was utterly convinced i'd reached a eureka moment. I eventually had my tonsils gauged out (age 27) which made absolutely no difference to my breath, unfortunately. I'd always been aware of these foul stones that mysteriously appeared from nowhere too.
Then i read about the link with helicobacter pylori and even had an endoscopy performed without sedation just to make sure i could witness it, which proved negative anyway, even after blood tests etc. Then, about 5 years ago i was sitting there once again taking a long hard look at myself, my PERFECT teeth smiling back at me, in perfect health etc etc.. and started fiddling with a wisdom tooth. (About 15 years ago my dentist removed 2 upper wisdom teeth and told me that my lower left wisdom tooth was impacted and still completely below the gumline, but the right-side was partially erupted). After i'd finished fiddling, i subconsciously went to smell my finger and OH MY GOD did it smell. I am still so traumatized and dispondent by the failures i've had, i have just ended up frozen with fear, living on "hope" that it might be this wisdom tooth, but daren't get it removed incase i have to go back to that SINKING, DESPERATE knowledge that it isnt the cause. Having read so much in the last weeks, im feeling so convinced now that it is THIS COCKSUCKING WISDOM TOOTH. My tongue is usually a little coated and always STINKS, but for the past two weeks ive consciously tried to keep the area around that tooth clean using my tongue, and for the first time EVER i'm experiencing a "clean" taste in my mouth and not even the slightest scent of anything on my tongue, although there is this contant SHITTY stuff coming out from around the gum of that wisdom tooth if i prod it.

I have decided that im going to have this tooth extracted, even if i have to do it myself. I'm compiling a list of all the dentists ive seen in preparation to SUE them ALL for their incompetence if this is the cause.

I would like to make the following points:-

1. Halitosis (chronic or otherwise) REALLY CAN have the simplest of causes, no matter how deeply seated it may feel to someone suffering a chronic condition.

2. Very basically, there are two kinds of halitosis, air from the lungs (disease/infection/systemic illnesses - RARE and easily identifiable) or from disease/infection within the oral/nasal cavities. Either the tongue stinks or it doesnt, depends whether infection elsewhere is able to "influence" the natural bacterial activity that takes place on EVERYONE's tongue (nasal infection/PND TEETH ADENOIDS TONSILS ETC). Also its possible that these foul (and TOXIC) chemicals produced are swallowed and eventually come back out of the lungs/skin further exacerbating the problem, in the same way as other strong odourous chemicals can do when ingested, such as garlic or curry for instance.

3. Just because we have "SHIT" breath does not mean our problem is connected to our "SHIT" - think about that - yes its all bacterial, but does that necessarily mean they must be connected? (see point 1)

4. Placebo effects - tricks of the mind etc - im not denying that certain measures that "alter" or modify the oral bacterial flora are not real, but how many people can say they were cured, or that any changes last for very long?

5. My mother had severe chronic halitosis for as long as i could remember. She neglected her oral hygiene and as a result 3 years ago she had all her teeth extracted, now she has not even a HINT of halitosis - EVER. She also has always suffered with severe post nasal drip and still does. (deviated septum)

6. My sister has never ever had halitosis, in the last couple of years she is having some problems with a decaying tooth/root/filling, which her dentist refuses to give up up on ($$$!!) and now has the most terrible "mothball" smelling breath. IF she had some mechanism which kept her breath completely clean that was missing in me, she sure as shit doesnt have it now.

7. The "fresh breath" industry is worth ZILLIONS. Just imagine, a simple scientific ingenious way of controlling the bacterial flora in the mouth so that it doesnt produce foul smelling chemicals, afterall we have managed to walk on the moon (in theory at least), sequence the entire human DNA.. but simple economics mean we can just FORGET THAT EVER HAPPENING. I hope its possible that if we each manage get to the bottom of our individual cause of halitosis we wouldnt need a "cure" afterall. Another point also, is that we must try to be positive about the halitomafiosi and look at the money we've all "wasted" as going towards creating AWARENESS. When i first set out on this lonely road there was nothing, yet today the stores are full of products, useless for bad breath ironically, but very good at making it all seem "normal".

Im sorry if in my ignorance i end up clashing with anyone's findings/experience, but my head is barely above the water i dont know how im still here. But people must be made to feel free to come on here and express their thoughts, whatever they are, and leave us to make our own judgements and conclusions. good luck to everyone.. josh

[daveparker]

Yeah seriously man, i think dentists for the most part are incompetent.

[halitosisux]

hi dave, thanks for the reply.. im really looking forward to talking to others in the same boat, i tried to make my first posting on here as short and to the point as possible, but there's so much more to say and i missed heaps out.. yes, i'd asked so many dentists if there was anything with my dentition that might cause my bad breath and they all said my teeth/gums were perfect (this was before i became aware of my stinking wisdom tooth) yet there staring straight at them was a half-sunken wisdom tooth pushing right into the back of my throat, with obvious signs of a "pocket" and none of them mentioned a thing. I can clearly taste the crap coming out of there now that im aware of it, but because it's so far at the back of my mouth and near my tongue i just never realised the connection. I was always worried that it was my tongue odour and foul shit from there making the tooth stink, but right now as i sit here, trying to keep that area clean as possible, my tongue and mouth have no odour, but yet my tooth absolutely stinks - all it takes is something similar happening in someone's tonsils or their sinuses etc.. i dont think it takes much to give someone dragon breath, we soon pick up something rotting in the fridge or something minor in the dustbin creating terrible stink, and maybe this is the mechanism going on in our mouths.. anyway goodnight for now, looking forward to talking to u guys

[Snobuni]

Last time I went to see my dentist I asked her if my unerupted wisdom teeth could be a cause of my bb, she said no because they're under my gums. But I came across a article that suggested that unerupted wisdom teeth can invade the sinuses and become infected. The teeth don't hurt as they have an outlet for the infection (i.e. the sinuses). Has anyone heard of this?

I'm hoping to get a CT scan of my sinuses in the next few months, so I may ask the ENT about this. I did read a few forum posts about people who had their wisdom teeth removed as they were invading their sinuses and they developed bb AFTER the removal!!

[halitosisux]

Hi snobuni, thanks for replying..
Yes that is true, the upper wisdom teeth are just millimetres away from the sinuses apparently, and can cause infection in there. In my case its on the bottom though, and apart from mild PND from a deviated septum i dont think i have any sinus infection.
In our desperation and despair with a problem that seems to have taken over most of our lives, its very easy to stop looking at the obvious things because most things relating to the obvious have been dismissed in some way. And like anything that is unknown or unclear we start developing theories that are full of contradictions, ignorance etc, in order to survive, a bit like religion in a way.
I think its safe to assume that ALL humans have a certain level of "halitosis" which under normal conditions is kept below levels that are perceptible to others, by what seems to be a simple (in biological terms) self-regulating mechanism involving salivary secretions etc and the actual structures they constantly bathe. Even with the constant flow of thick protein-rich mucus on the posterior of the tongue IN EVERY MOUTH, this is still managed in normal situations.

But imagine that someone has sinusitis for instance, producing odourous germ infested putrifying mucus (normally mucus manages to remain odourless up to this point because it contains enzymes, LISOZYME i think which kills germs, found also in egg-white for the same reason), it seems perfectly feasible that it could disrupt this mechanism allowing perceivable levels of odour to be produced on the tongue dorsum. Also, there are many possible areas of infection that may themselves cause odour, such as teeth, gums, tonsils, sinuses, throat.. or by simply being responsible for the bacterial overgrowth in the area just described.

Once a chronic persistant situation like that has taken hold, we become tuned into it, noticing the slightest of changes that may come about for many possible reasons, such as increased hydration, changes in our immune system, changes to our oral flora etc etc. And then we start believing we're onto something and start chasing it, trying to isolate what may have been behind it.. usually only to fall flat on our faces eventually.

[asd]

sounds like some good input mate

[Snobuni]

Story of my life...

[halitosisux]

Hi asd, thanks for the reply.. yeah Snobuni, because we're all looking for that miracle, cos that's what we all feel we need.. fat people always moan about being fat, make such a big issue about how hard that is and how hard it is to lose weight.. makes u feel sick listening to all these "solvable" problems.. but with everyone coming together on here and sharing ours its a miracle in itself.. we need to do everything we can together to get the momentum moving in the right directions.. if it turns out that my cause is my wisdom tooth im gonna spend a month in Barbados, im going to have a minimum of 20 women at a time in my bedroom all to myself.. then im going to get back home, clear some debts, settle a few scores with people, make a donation to this website.. and try and help as many people on here as possible.. but for now i need as much encouragement and support as i cant get, cos if this doesnt work then i think i'm gonna try the guaranteed to work bullet method of eradication.

[halitosisux]

By the way, asd and snobuni, from your ENT visit posting.. first of all asd, regarding tonsillectomy, we have to eliminate every possible potential cause - it may well be that crypted tonsils are a cause in themselves, but it wasnt in my case, i think for me they stunk because of what else is going on in my mouth/throat area bacterially, which i was worried might also be the mechanism behind my smelly wisdom tooth, until the last 2 weeks of keeping the area clean simply by constantly keeping the tip of my tongue covered over the gum there, and realising that the ONLY place in my mouth now that is producing odour is that gum pocket around this tooth, the rest of my mouth is staying completely odourless. Snobuni.. MUCUS IS NOT SUPPOSED TO SMELL - find a way to confirm that yours has some odour by the time it is reaching your throat - if it is then i reckon you have found the cause of your halitosis - PERSUE THIS! get a CT scan and dont settle for anything less than TOTALLY CLEAN SMELLING mucus (PND before it arrives at the throat)

[halitosisux]

I was just reading about DRASTIC having tonsillectomy this sunday - good luck DRASTIC! I had mine out privately.. caught a cold soon after having them out - what a nightmare - try to get this done in summer time people!!, less chance of catching these bugs. I wasnt given any antibiotics either, just painkillers. I can remember the surgeon telling me how my tonsils looked having cut them out, he said they were full of stones & gunk.. he also said he'd left my adenoids in because they were clealy in no need to be removed. Snobuni, having just read some more of what you've been saying in other posts, sounds very likely to me the source of your problems are your sinuses.

[Snobuni]

Hey Halitosisux,

It sounds to me like your wisdom tooth is almost certainly the cause of your bb. Have you had any x-rays done? When are you going to get it removed? What does yor bb smell like? Mine's really odd, it used to be bottom of a bin type of thing, now it's kind of sweet and chemically, v weird.

I think if my bb is not coming from my stomach, it's either my sinuses or an invading widom tooth. The thing is, I hardly have any mucous or stuffed up sinuses. The only problem I have with my sinuses is a deviated septum, and some thin, mildly smelly mucous which becomes less smelly if I use a steriod nasal spray. I not holding out much hope that the CT scan will show anything at all. I know a deviated septum can prevent proper drainage of mucous, but alot of people on this forum had their's fixed without it making any difference to their bb. If it does turn out to be PND, rather than a fungal or bacterial infection of my sinuses or an invading wisdom tooth, there's nothing I can do about that is there?

It's so difficult trying to find the source of bb!!

I had a hard time after my tonsillectomy too, got appendicitus 2 weeks after, probably due to not eating for 10 days, lost ALOT of weight, wasn't good at all!

[halitosisux]

Hey Snobuni, glad to see your reply, no i havent yet discussed any of this recent stuff with my dentist and the last time i had an x-ray was about 10/15 years ago.. im just gathering all the info i can and trying to feel convinced inside that this is my cause, because i dont think i'll be able to take it if it isnt cos ive literally tried everything apart from bullets. I havent tried any of these probiotics etc, i dont believe in any of it.. i know i tried live natural yoghurt once, brushing it into my tongue and it seemed to give me a slightly nicer taste in my mouth, nothing else. I'm sure that all these slight improvement people seem to be reporting are just the general beneficial improvement in overall health, which is pretty likely to boost the immune system and improve the natural system that prevents the mouth from stinking in normal situations. To imagine that our breath smells due to something going on directly inside our bowels is no different to saying that anything else that stinks involving bacterial activity in the body is relating to this too. There's NO REASON WHY IT SHOULD FFS! if there was we'd all be completely cured now having made this connection, and if there wasnt then EVERYONE should be walking around with shit breath! I dont use any mouthwash of any kind, nor do i brush my tongue.. i used to and my tongue constantly had a thick furring AND STINK anyway - but if you stop doing this the natural fungal/bacterial balance resumes somewhat, and there is still some coating and lots of smell, but nothing which made the ritual tongue brushing/rinsing etc worth bothering with - the small benefits i used to get just mean there's no point basically. I actually think it makes things worse, particularly from the drying effects of mouthwashes. Anyway, I just suddenly decided that i must get on with this, because for me there's no point in living with this problem any longer and i might as well put myself out of my misery, so the sooner i know if this is the cause, the better. Then i started researching some more and found this site, and some of the info regarding wisdom teeth has given me so much confidence to take this important step. Im going to see my dentist VERY soon and i hope he'll be able to wrench it out there and then. My brother tells me that my BB smells like the awful smell you get in certain areas when flossing - its not the room-filling lingering farty type of smell, but its there and its disgusting and very pungent. My saliva once it comes into contact with my tongue smells similar too. Nothing from the nose - i think the room-filling type of BB is caused by the sinuses or from the lungs themselves. I think that once a chronic case sets in, it can effect other areas indirectly, resulting in your v weird breath u describe. Oh by the way.. yes ive read that removal of impacted upper wisdom teeth can THEN lead to slight infection from the zone of the the removed tooth to spread the very short distance and invade the sinuses and cause BB in the way u described - The condition of my nose sounds exactly like yours snobuni, but i can confirm that my PND if i can catch it before it comes into contact with my tongue NEVER smells of anything, nor does mucus that i blow out of the front of my nose - If i were you i'd take the smelly mucus you describe VERY VERY VERY seriously indeed as a potential cause of BB. Also bare in mind that it could be coming from any one of the many sinuses in the head. Get yourself thoroughly examined and dont give up in this area until your mucus is completely cleared. My opinion on CLEAR PND is that if there are other causes of one's halitosis, this will probably ONLY exacerbate things and not itself cause halitosis.

[halitosisux]

Im finding it INCREDIBLE that people are spending so much time and effort persuing all these different approaches trying to deal with or trying to discover something new for dealing with their own chronic halitosis, and basing their progress on the amount of times someone rubs their nose or coughs and other paranoid observations
- i know most people dont have much other choice, but i think ur all going round in circles together throwing money down the drain..

Anyway, if anyone is bothering to read and make any sense of how im seeing things lately, look at this that i've found as a prime example of trusting your own instincts and NEVER TO TRUST what "professionals" in the medical profession try to fob you off with..

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I have been struggling with bad breath for over 15 years. I have tried gum mints, Therabreath, Biotene. I had my tonsils taken out. I've gone to ENT's, Gastro Docs, General Practioners, Chiropracters, Reflexologists, and plenty of Dentists.

The dentists tell me it's acid reflex, the gastro docs sent me back to the dentists. Everyone blamed it on Post nasal drip. I've bought nasal irrigation systems; I should own stock in Trident; I've traveled to Chicago and was considering going to California. In short, I have spent THOUSANDS of dollars and countless hours trying to figure this out.

Finally, after someone offered me another piece of gum (don't you love when people do that) on Sunday, I was back to square one with worry, anxiety humiliation, and embarassment.

On Monday, I looked up crowns and halitosis. I got a crown placed on my tooth back in 1992. Guess what? There were stories of people with cracked crowns, cracked teeth under crowns, and BAD BREATH.

Tuesday - yesterday - I saw a NEW dentist. I told him I want the crown and tooth removed. I was sent downstairs to an oral surgeon.

He took it out and sent me home. I called back and asked the condition of the tooth. It was decayed and cracked. My breath had been described as "it's like something crawled up there and died," Well, my tooth was dead.

Years of embarassment, thousands of dollars, multiple visits to ENT's, Gastro doctor, Dentists, etc. Told to drink water, scrape tongue, floss, take acid reflux drugs, etc.

And NO ONE thought to ask, "How long has that crown been on?" I asked a dentist earlier this year about the crown being the source of my bad breath. She tapped it and said no, it was on there securely.

I am going to write to every single one of these doctors so they can possibly help someone else. This may not be your problem or a common problem but it was MY problem. I can't believe NO ONE thought of this before.

I am convinced that you are the most important person as regards to your life. I hope no one else has to go through what I have gone through.

Please, keep searching. Your answer is out there. I wish you the best of luck and hope that these message boards will do for us what no doctor has the time to do.
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[Snobuni]

I have ALOT of amalgam fillings (long story, basically the dentist I had as a kid was scamming the NHS for money from doing lots of un-necessary fillings). I've asked my dentist if they could be the cause, but she says that they're all in good condition, no cracks or decay underneath them.

My last dentist found a crack in one of them a while back and she took it out and replaced it with a white filling, but it never effected my breath while it was cracked (well, it didn't get any worse), and my bb didn't improve when it was replaced, so I'm thinking my fillings aren't a problem.

[halitosisux]

hi snobuni..

until we're ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN there are no dental causes we must persue this until we are as its the most common cause of all.. but did u read my reply to you concerning your sinuses? u didnt mention anything on that, so i thought i'd just remind you.

By the way if anyone would like to talk in IM (yahoo etc) please let me know, PM me on here too