Null hypothesis: "Candida causes Halitosis"

[dolittle]

Hi Aydinmur,

out of CO2, acids and alcohols, would any of these end products be capable of causing malodor under physiological pH?

I definately believe you that a Candida culture would smell, but would or candidiasis be capable of producing this same odor in vivo? I personally think this is a different think entirely. We only have to look back at the fairly recent disproval that anything apart from VSC were major contributors to oral malodor, due to their insufficient conentration and ability to be liberated from solution at physiological pH...cadaverine etc

Candida and halitosis is an example of correlation does not imply causation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlatio ... _causation

...and I think xerostomia is the indirect mechanism, since it could separately cause increase in VSC and Candidal overgrowth.

Because of both Candidial biofilm or tongue coating is whitish, people estimated a relationship between tongue coating and Candida may be present. This is the most plausible scenario.


Candida assimilates carbohidrates.
CO2, acides, alcohols are end products.

If Candida had exactly caused halitosis, then every AIDS patients, cortizol cured patients would have hard halitosis.

I can say with my personal experiences, Candida cultures Usually smel like cheese, not very bad.
On the other hand, Fusobacteria, and other anaerobes' cultures have bad odor, intolerable!.

I think, Candida species dont directly cause bad odor, but perhaps indirect mechanisms may operate.

-M

[dolittle]

Hi HG

yes, metro has action against anaerobic bacteria, and these are the culprits of VSC production in intraoral halitosis. However, it did start initially as a antifungal. Nystatin would be an example of an antifungal that does not follow that nomenclature however.

I'm not a microbiologist, so he is the chap to ask certainly. I do get what you are suggesting tho, but i think the answer would be better coming from Dr Aydinmur...as I have no clue about the answer.

When you say "some AIDs and immunocompromised patients don't have BB"...surely this should read "Most don't have" ?

The whole Dimethyl sulfide thing has been discovered by Drs Tangerman and Winkel in the Netherlands. We need to wait for them to publish more info on their discoveries.

P.s. glad you like my Wiki page Its blood borne halitosis, not like Jason Bourne...this terminology follows phrases like blood borne infections, meaning things being carried in the blood stream.

Given the potential prevalence of the new metabolic cause of Dimethylsulfidemia, which looks like it might be higher than TMAU, i would say all these poor people who have the yeasty, musty, mousy smell, especially if BO and BB together...then they have DMSE not some kind of "made up" disease like systemic candidiasis or fungal dysbiosis. We will have to wait and see though

It was actually metronidazole that I had taken and it does make sense for it to have been used as a antifungal (I believe all antifungals have the suffix of 'azole'). I believe what Dr. Aydinmur says that it is not the candida itself but maybe the candida is not supporting a good homeostatis for beneficial bacteria if the good bacteria is too few or the bad is too many. That may explain why some aids and immuno-compromised patient don't have bb. From what I know candida ferments in the body. Just like fermented grapes or apples don't stink, but fermented cabbage does possibly because of Dimethyl sulfide. Which is said to be the cause of most blood bourne halitosis when in excess.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethylsulfidemia

Dimethylsulfidemia is a pathological sign, and can be defined as > 7 nM dimethyl sulfide in peripheral venous blood.[1] There are several known causes, but it is suggested that a newly identified metabolic condition is responsible for the majority of cases.[2] Furthermore, there is evidence that the majority of cases of extra-oral (outside the mouth) blood borne halitosis are caused by dimethylsulfidemia.[2][3][4] The mechanism of this relationship is thought to be related to the fact that dimethyl sulfide is subject to pulmonary excretion, and hence is transferred to the exhaled breath via gas exchange.

[halitosisux]

My mum had oral thrush last year and I couldnt smell a thing on her breath. She was given Nystin drops (Nystatin) and it cleared quickly.
She is suffering with long-term health problems.

The Oral Chroma tester measures dimethylsulphide levels. Can this not be used as a simple way to determine whether a person is suffering from dimethylsulphidemia?

[hali_grl]

dolitte thanks for the english tutoring session didn't realize we were in class, lol!
some=most
bourne=borne

[mike987]

This thread is pretty smart.

That original post should be stickied somewhere on the site so the ignorance doesn't continue.

I've bought into the Candida thing too... It's easier to buy into something when you have no idea what the problem is.

[dolittle]

My mum had oral thrush last year and I couldnt smell a thing on her breath. She was given Nystin drops (Nystatin) and it cleared quickly.
She is suffering with long-term health problems.

The Oral Chroma tester measures dimethylsulphide levels. Can this not be used as a simple way to determine whether a person is suffering from dimethylsulphidemia?

Yeah H, this is in line with my limited experience of seeing Oral thrush (Oral candidiasis) patients. V obvious white patches or redness insid ethe mouth, but no odor.
yes OralChroma could, as long as the machine has been properly calibrated. Best to get this done by a researcher at a dedicated and responsible clinic rather than at some dentist who is just cashing in and doesnt know what they are doing.

I understand there is also a urine test for DMS, I might look into that in a small study at some point.

Dimethylsulfidemia is a sign rather than a a diagnosis, and it has several known causes, one of which is the as yet unamed and undefined metabolic condition discovered by Drs Tangerman and Winkel.

[dolittle]

dolitte thanks for the english tutoring session didn't realize we were in class, lol!
some=most
bourne=borne

lol, sorry

[aydinmur]

1)
There is imidazole ring in many drugs:
Ketoconazole, antifungal
Nitroimidazole, antianaerobik
Mercaptoimidazole, antihistaminic
Metilimidazol, sedative
...more...
My knowledge, Metronidazol does not have effect on fungi.


2)
There is not good/bad bacteria. All bad. Some of them foreign members of that flora (somes say bad) are rejected by host, while some others indigenous (somes say good) are accepted by host.

out of CO2, acids and alcohols, would any of these end products be capable of causing malodor under physiological pH?

I definately believe you that a Candida culture would smell, but would or candidiasis be capable of producing this same odor in vivo?

3)
Personally, I have not ever detected Candidial products cause halitosis in vivo. Very specific (Phenethyl alcohol and other volatile alcohols) odor appears when candidal lesions are seen in a mouth. This odor does not look like halitosis which I often encounter.
VOC and LEL sensors catch Candidial odor, sulphur sensors keep their zero level during halitometric measurement.

4)
One day, If Candida overgrow in a mouth, stomach, gut, this comes to mean that, There is bigger problem and bigger symtoms than halitosis.


5)
copy below:
Bundan sonra bu şekilde yazabilir miyim?
Beni anlıyor musunuz?

paste here:
http://translate.google.com/#tr/en/

- Murat

[Frantix]

[3)
Personally, I have not ever detected Candidial products cause halitosis in vivo. Very specific (Phenethyl alcohol and other volatile alcohols) odor appears when candidal lesions are seen in a mouth. This odor does not look like halitosis which I often encounter.]

This is interesting. Once, somebody asked me if I drank alcohol because of my smell, but I didn´t. It is long time ago but at that time I often had white arrears on the inside of my cheeks. Maybe I had to deal with a strong candida overgrowth in my mouth at that time. Those white things are completely gone, but I still have a swollen tongue with tooth prints on the sides. In some forums I read about a connection with it and candida. I wonder if there´s still some little overgrowth of candida in my body that is also feeding some stinky bacteria in my mouth.