Bad Breath Halitosis Forum

sadman wrote:When cysteine is applied to the dorsum of the tongue, to the buccal sulcus or in the sublingual area , large amounts of volatile sulfur compounds are produced , demonstrating the immediate ability of the microbial flora resident in these sites to produce VSC . So if a cysteine application to the tongue dorsum increases the production of VSC , it means that the malodor is type 1 . Please advise if I misunderstood again

Every healthly person produce vsc gases if we put cystein in his/her mouth. This is normal.

Cystein is used as below:
Static mouth air is measured before/after ZnCl2. If both value dont mismatch, cystein is used instead of ZnCl2, before /after cystein values are again measured in a next appointment. Increasing of halitometric measurements with cystein or decreasing with ZnCl2 reciprocally confirms each other.

Halitosis type-1 is often a consequence of halitosis type II and III. Overgrowth of bacteria in sinuses or intestines will change the flora in mouth. White tongue is present in the type-I,II and III. ZnCl can reduce the BB by getting rid of bacteria in tongue temporaly, but BB from the insides will remain.

In my opinion halitosis type 4 (gases from blood) does not yield white tongue or tongue with bad odor.
Since bacteria are not exhaled from lungs, but just the gases.

Renato, that's why its so important to rule out and ensure there are no type II or III causes present. But there could also be many different reasons why there might be a type I halitosis in the absense of any of the other types. A prime example is any deep crevices, especially in the centre of the tongue, or deeper than usual tongue papillae (the true papillae depth not the coating). But as Aydinmur has stated, there is a lot that is still unknown relating to the type I halitosis, and that is surely where the answers are going to lie for many.

Also, a bacterial overgrowth in the mouth might arise out of being dehydrated. And there are situations that can cause type 4 BB that can also lead to dehydration, such as constipation and diarrhea. So its not true to say that type 4 wont yield a white tongue or tongue with bad odour.

Why exactly would overgrowth of bacteria in the intestines change the flora in the mouth? I always thought the flora in our intestines came from what took hold inside our mouth, which is what we then swallow, which then forms itself into our intestinal flora. How and why would it be the reverse of this?

You put boric acid in the mouthwash?

Boric acid is used to kill roaches

thanatos wrote:You put boric acid in the mouthwash?
Boric acid is used to kill roaches

Yes its toxic for roaches.
But its added into eye drops as antiseptic and antifungal agent..

Acid borique - Median lethal dose 5.14 gr/kg
Salt (NaCl) - Median lethal dose 3.75 gr/kg

-Murat

im type 3 or 4. I get a lot of bloating, stomach noises and gas

dr. aydin,

is it possible to have more than one type of bad breath? for example, i do get post nasal drip, digestion problems, possibly GERD, etc.. but i can sometimes also just feel that my breath tastes and smells bad. if i do a lick test of my wrist, sometimes i can detect no smell, and other times, i can detect a smell. i wonder if i can have both type 1 and type 3 bb.

ruch wrote:dr. aydin,

is it possible to have more than one type of bad breath? for example, i do get post nasal drip, digestion problems, possibly GERD, etc.. but i can sometimes also just feel that my breath tastes and smells bad. if i do a lick test of my wrist, sometimes i can detect no smell, and other times, i can detect a smell. i wonder if i can have both type 1 and type 3 bb.

Yes

Its possible to have more than 1 type togheter, he said it lot of times here... do a research

Friends
I would like to share this paper about definition, classification of halitosis:

http://www.aydinmur.com/halitosis-defin ... cation.pdf

-M

Thank you Doctor.

Doctor, please read the adenoidectomy thread and give us your trusted views and any experiences you might have in dealing with similar cases. Thanks!

Thanks doctor for your continued support.

aydinmur wrote:According to me (1) , there are 5 types of malodor:

Type-1 halitosis takes origin from tongue dorsum. Foods are turned aromatic-volatil compounds by anaerobic bacteria between papillae.

Type-2 halitosis takes origin around oral cavity. Paranasal sinuses, Waldeyer's lymphoid ring, retronasal mucosa, oropharynx etc.

Type-3 halitosis takes origin from gastrointestinal canal. Reflux, H. pylori gastritis, bacterial over growth, malabsorptions, gut and colon diseases.

Type-4 halitosis takes origin from blood gases. Many catabolic substances leave the body via renal or hepatic ways. If liver and/or kidneys can not truely filter them, this catabolic waste may resolve in blood plasm and enter to systemic blood circulation. Lungs try to filter and exhale them via breath. They may have a bad odor. This causes bad breath.

Type-5 halitosis is psychologic.


References:
1. Aydın Murat. [Halitosis, from diagnosis to therapy]. Nobel Tıp Kitap evi, Istanbul, 2008. http://www.aydinmur.com/akkitabi.html
2. http://aydinmur.com/agizkokusu.html

Hi Doctor,

I was wondering if one type can result in symptoms of another type. For example:

Can Type 3 which is as a results of bacterial over growth and Intestinal Parasites results in the release toxins which are not filtered by the liver and kidneys hence end up in the lungs and through our breath?

Thank you.

blessedrich wrote:Can Type 3 which is as a results of bacterial over growth and Intestinal Parasites results in the release toxins which are not filtered by the liver and kidneys hence end up in the lungs and through our breath?

Bacterial intestinal overgrowth may cause methane or hydrogen emission in the gut space. These gases enter blood stream and leave body from alveolar breath (Type 4 halitosis) or leakage through gastroeusophagial sphincter (Type 3 halitosis). It can be classified Type 3+4

Here details:
http://www.murataydin.org/halitosis-def ... cation.pdf

-M

aydinmur wrote: Bacterial intestinal overgrowth may cause methane or hydrogen emission in the gut space. These gases enter blood stream and leave body from alveolar breath (Type 4 halitosis) or leakage through gastroeusophagial sphincter (Type 3 halitosis). It can be classified Type 3+4

Here details:
http://www.murataydin.org/halitosis-def ... cation.pdf

-M

Thank you Doctor,

I have read the "Halitosis: a new definition and classification" cover to cover about 3 times already and I intend to ready some more because it contains a lot of information that is helping me narrow down my problem.

But I will like to get some confirmation from you with the conclusions that i have drawn from reading to know if I am right or wrong.

I have 2 follow up question:

1. Following up on my first question can Type 3 halitosis also results in type 1 and 2? That is can the gasses that leak through the guts alter the oral flora of patients and lead to gum diseases and bad wisdom tooth hence resulting in type 1 halitosis? Also can gasses from the guts cause bacteria infestation of the upper respiratory tract and also result in type 2?

2. When listing the cause of gastroesophageal halitosis you listed gastrocolic fistulae, Zenker diverticulum and hypopharyngeal diverticulae. Are there any other bacteria infestations that can affect the guts and results in gastroesophageal halitosis apart from Helicobacter pylori? How about SIBO and intestinal parasites can they be the cause of gastroesophageal halitosis?

Thank you.