Murat Aydin

halitosisux · Post by **halitosisux** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:15 am

Thanks for your reply Aydinmur.
It's quite comforting to read these facts from you.

I wonder how many sufferers are trapped in Type-5 BB due to this possible false assumption that any perceivable tongue odour will always equal bad breath.

It would be great if we could buy test strips that are sensitive to the types of chemicals that can appear on the tongue that do translate into bad breath.

It's easy to say we should rely on our friends and relatives etc to tell us the truth, but to be able to confirm it for ourselves in this way would be an entirely different thing.

I'll read your reply again later and try to understand some of the chemistry you've described.

DanielPine · Post by **DanielPine** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:50 am

I am farting a lot, burping a lot, pooping 2 times a day, my stomach is always gurgling and i often get tingling in my throat and stomach, what does this mean in relation to my BB?

aydinmur · Post by **aydinmur** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:12 am

meowkity1 wrote:do anaerobic pockets show up on x-ray?

No need xray to detect pockets.
Gingival pockets may have max 2mm depth. Measure yourself your gingival pocket by Inserting a clean pointed wire that have marked 2 mm.

aydinmur · Post by **aydinmur** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:33 am

lost1234 wrote: Do you have many type 5 patients?

Yess !

- people rub their nose when I talk
- my girl/boy friend left me for my halitosis.
- they give me hidden message to warn me about my halitosis by they coughing when I talk
- people turns to another direction when I talk
- people touch their nose with their fingers to politely warn me about my halitosis
-..........

aydinmur · Post by **aydinmur** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:36 am

Source wrote:Can you please explain to me what it is indicative of when the water from which I drink starts to change its smell and taste a few minutes after I have drank from the cup?

I dont know. By estimating, I dont think it extends more than 5-10 seconds..

Brad123 wrote:Maybe bad breath is related to the sodium/water balance in all cells of the body.

No there is not specifically Na-related mechanism of halitosis..

- Murat

planet · Post by **planet** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:50 pm

Dr Adynmur,

For this reason I always make test with Zn solution (not commercial Zn rinse)

My answer is : "yes" If Zn solution doesnt inhibit initial odor level at least 1-2 hours, at least more than 20%, then I strongly think non-type 1 halitosis present at that patient.

But where can I get/ buy this Zn solution? The commercial mouthwashes containing zinc among other ingredients didn't work for me.
Thanks a lot

kart · Post by **kart** » Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:41 pm

Dr Adynmur,

How reliable can be the halimeter? I did The test 3 times, and it never get over than 40 ppb, and at that moment I was feeling the bad taste at my mouth...

Carri · Post by **Carri** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 1:59 am

Dear Dr.aydinmur,

I did a Nystatin treatment (500 mL over 10 days) to remove the strong white coating on tongue which I thought gave me bad breath.

The lower part of my tongue is very red/pink while the center and toward the back of my tongue there is a white/yellow coating. When I brush my teeth I get reaction from people even 5 min after, but I believe the bad breath decreased after the Nystatin treatment.

Do you give anti-fungus solution to your bad breath patients, and is it normal to go for a second round to get all the tongue 'clean'.

Thank you.

bbsux · Post by **bbsux** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:08 am

Hi

Murat,

I have asked my mom (she actually shows reactions to me), sister, work manager, and a highschool friend and all deny that i have a problem or that i have bad breath. They say it is in my head.

Furthermore i have met someone from this forum and him and me became friends and have met up 100+ times blew into each other face and never smell anything. My friend says he has met 3 other people from the bad breath forum and none of them could detect any bad smell from each other. Both him and me have smelled other random people bad breath before so we can definitely detect other people that we meet randomly in public.

Based on everything i wrote above one would think that me and my friend are imagining the problem and actually suffering from heletophobia.

HOWEVER. When we go out in real world we do get CLEAR reactions.

I SEE clear reactions when i am around strangers (Ie: nose rubbing, hand under nose, facial expression, coughing, even sometime whispering). Its like i am 100% sure that these people are having negative reaction to me/my smell. Same with my friend, recently he was telling me how he went to a meeting and one of his coworkers would literally choke/cough every time my friend would talk. This person was rubbing his nose really hard and almost seemed like he was drowning.

I have experienced similar reaction before where person looked normal prior to me talking to them. I talked to them for 10 minutes and in those 10 minutes their eyes and face got red like they were seriously suffering.

Also recently i went on a interview and the guy that interviewed me did not show any usual reactions to me however by the end of the interview his eyes were red.

How can this be explained? Our family and friends claim not to smell us. We bb sufferers cant smell each other but when we go in public people clearly react to us.

bbsux · Post by **bbsux** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:19 am

I have one more question please sir.

My mother does say that my room smells in the morning. If she comes in the morning my room will smell. She makes joke saying that i need to stop passing gas but i think its actually my bad breath that is filling up the room if i am in it for a long time.

Other peoples room doesn not smell bad in the mornings.

It is not the room itself, i have lived in 3-4 different rooms and all have distinct smell if i spend a number hours in them. Even i can smell it.....If i spend 5+ hrs in my room then go to my living room and come back in 2-3 minutes i can smell a stuffy odor in my room.

This does not happen in my moms room.

aydinmur · Post by **aydinmur** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:55 am

planet wrote:But where can I get/ buy this Zn solution?

Carri wrote:Dear Dr.aydinmur,I did a Nystatin treatment (500 mL over 10 days) to remove the strong white coating on tongue which I thought gave me bad breath.

There is not yeas infection on your tongue, If you can remove the white coating by scraping your tongue with a spoon or any sharp object. The yeast lesions can not be removed from mucosal surface by scraping.

I dont believe removable white coatings on tongue are yeast lesion. I have not needed antifungal since years.

(Exceptionaly I gave antifungal last month to one patient for diagnostic purposes).

-Murat

aydinmur · Post by **aydinmur** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:14 am

kart wrote:Dr Adynmur, How reliable can be the halimeter? I did The test 3 times, and it never get over than 40 ppb, and at that moment I was feeling the bad taste at my mouth...

Halitometer is very useful instrument but Halimeter is the worst.

Surprisingly, I see every body uses halimeter as halitometer. on the world.

Halimeter measures 30-900 ppb halitosis when it is applied on soap, carrot, coca-cola, grape, yoghurt, apple, pear, tea, sugar, stone, shampoo, toothpaste, mouthwash, lettuce .....

I find Halimeter is unreliable. if it is used as shown in its user manual.

I compared halitometers in a manuscript has not been published. When I sorted halitometers from best to worst, halimeter is the last one.

- Murat

aydinmur · Post by **aydinmur** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:36 am

bbsux wrote: Furthermore i have met someone from this forum and him and me became friends and have met up 100+ times blew into each other face and never smell anything.

This is not ethic.
Halitosis consists of toxic gases even nanogram level. Nobody deserves to be poisoned by his friend.

bbsux wrote:I My mother does say that my room smells in the morning. If she comes in the morning my room will smell.

In morning breath, 281-1246 ppb aceton is normal. In fasting, <2441 ppb is normal.
Up to 80 ppb aceton is normal in the bed room air. (Schwarz K, 2009)

Ammonia depends on your age. 20-60 yo 883 ppb, over 60 1080 ppb is expected in morning breath.

Carbohydrate and nitrogen metabolisms are descriptive on these values.
-Murat

halitosisux · Post by **halitosisux** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:04 am

I spent some time once where I had to live with 50 people in a large guesthouse. There were typically 4 or 5 people to a room.

I used to get up really early to brush my teeth and shower or bath and avoid anyone noticing any of my fears and anxieties of being around others, especially during the morning where there's so much exposure. Afterwards, while most were still asleep, I used to go around the rooms to have a cigarette and a chat etc. Every single room I'd enter was stale and mildly fecal smelling. There were no exceptions. And I can't recall any of the people having bad breath during the normal daytime.

I don't know if this is the same kind of thing you describe bbsux

ruch · Post by **ruch** » Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:07 am

i actually posted this elsewhere:

i notice that my bb (which i am pretty sure originates in the mouth.. and i also have some post nasal drip) is worse as the day progresses. you would think that it would be worse upon awaking, but i find that after i wake up and brush my teeth and use grapefruit seed extract and a zinc-based rinse or chlorhexidine (or sometimes even with just brushing alone!), i cannot really detect bb on myself. as the day progresses though, it gets worse.. even after i brush and rinse again later with the same things.

just wondering why this might be the case. i am wondering if it holds any clues on how to deal with my bb, if i seem to have less(?) odor-causing bacteria in my mouth in the morning.

my routine at night before bed is:
-brush, floss, scrape tongue
-rinse with grapefruit seed extract (GSE - about 8 drops in 5 oz water) and sometimes i swallow but sometimes i don't
-if i am not too tired, i will use my neti pot to rinse my sinuses (with saline solution + 2 drops of GSE), and also irrigate my gums using my Hydrofloss machine with about 30 drops of GSE in 600mL of water.

i have to use a dental guard because i clench or grind my teeth at night, so i sleep with my mouth open. because of open mouth and no food for hours, you would think my bb would be worse in the morning (even after brushing since as we all know, brushing doesn't help that much for those of us with chronic bb).. so this just doesn't make sense to me.

i also have a lot of mercury amalgam fillings on my molars from when i was a young child 4 of them!) but i am hoping to get them removed and replaced with tooth coloured filling soon (actually, my dentist says the teeth all need to be capped since they are chipping and cracking over time). my dentist recently told me one of my molars was definitely cracking (apparently, the mercury expands over time and can cause this?). do you think this might be a source of bb as well (bacteria breeding in crevices in my teeth?). i notice my tongue is more white at the end of the day too, and also when my bb is worse (and it doesn't go away with scraping.. i always scrape whenever i brush).

thanks!