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help me find a cure

Everything related with bad breath can be found here. Everything about products, research, news about bad breath......
Crystle
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help me find a cure

Post by Crystle »

Hi.. I am new here and have been reading a lot of interesting info on this forum. I have been suffering from bad breath for about 10 years and over the past years it's been getting steadily worse. I am at the desperate stage now after having tried so many 'cures' and researched for months on end as to what is causing it. My social life is non-existant now and I have no-one to turn to. It seems there are a lot of knowledgable people on here. I don't think I have tonsoliths, I have been to the dentist and had a deep clean and he said my oral hygeine is excellent but wasn't interested in my bad breath problem, I have 5 amalgum fillings still. I have tried oral and gastro probiotics, chlorhexidine mouthwash, tongue scraping, vitamins, I gave up milk products. Nothing has worked. I am now trying to approach this problem from a more scientific point of view. It seems there is so much contradictory information on the internet and also regarding what the so called experts say. I want to try changing the type and balance of my oral bacteria and think that maybe the ph of the mouth has something to do with it. It seems that anaerobic bacteria are responsible for the bad breath smells. I have read in sicentific artiles that alkaline ph causes the anearobic bacteria to multiply and that acid ph causes the dental decay bacteria to muliply. So it seems that if you have alkaline saliva you will not get so many caries but you will get bad breath and vice versa. Then I read today from Dr Katz (I think that a lot of what he says is a load of rubbish by the way), that bad breath bacteria love acidic environments. So which is it? to inhibit bad breath, do I need an alkaline or an acid mouth? does anyone know? as I am going to try and change the ph of my mouth towards the way that anearobic bacteria cannot multiply. I have several other plans up my sleeve as well so if this one doesn't work, I will try the next one.. Thank you all so much for any advice.


nikon
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Post by nikon »

First of all, that doctor is BS. If it was that easy to cure halitosis, then a lot of people would be talking about it. But no, people tried his products and nothing improved, worse your wallet got slimmer.

Anyway, do you might perhaps have chronic sinus allergy/rhinitis and/or PND?
Crystle
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Post by Crystle »

Of course, all the so called bad breath Drs are in it for the money. I might have PND yes, and am trying salt water nasal rinses multiple times a day and a nasal spray.

Apart from the enzyme problem that a small minority of people have, most BB probably comes from bacteria somewhere in the body, and in most people, it is in the upper respiratory tract somewhere. If you can inhibit the growth of only the bad bacteria (the anaerobic ones), you may be able change the overall flora of your mouth. Using Chlorhexidine or antibiotics will kill all the bacteria including the good sort; in fact, any bad resistant ones will hang on in there and the situation will be even worse once the antibiotics are stopped. This is why I want to create an oral (or upper resp tract) environment in which the bad bacteria are inhibited. I'm currently trying Lactobacillus reuteri as well, but today I got a bad reaction from someone so this is not helping. I've bought some litmus strips and will do some experimenting with this.
jamesmcavoy

helo crystal

Post by jamesmcavoy »

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Last edited by jamesmcavoy on Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Crystle
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Post by Crystle »

James: I've already tried Blis K12. It didn't work long term, if at all,, and it's too expensive for me to take continuously. If I have PND, which seems likely as the underlying cause, how do I get rid of this? it seems there is no real cure. I have read that nasal corticosteroids are no good for long-term use and I don't want to be on steroids my whole life anyway. The nasal irrigation is now causing me to have pain in my sinuses and headaches. It feels as if there is water stuck inside my head and tubes now, so this does not seem to be a long-term solution and might even be dangerous I feel. Do you know if L reuteri will work if I take it for ever? It is much cheaper than K12 so I would be willing to do that.
jamesmcavoy

Post by jamesmcavoy »

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Last edited by jamesmcavoy on Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
Crystle
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Post by Crystle »

James: I do think it is possible that the smell is coming from my nose. It is difficult to tell exactly. But if I take a big sniff and then swallow and breath out through my nose, I can smell something bad and I get a bad taste in the mouth. So I feel that somewhere between the back of my nose and throat here are bad bacteria lurking. I don't have a furry tongue. Mine is pink and very clean as I religously clean it 2/3 times a day with a tongue cleaner and various toothpastes.

However, I will try the colon cleanse just in case. What is acv?
I saw on another post than epsum salts may work as well.

what do you take for a colon cleanse?
The mucus removed by the nasal irrigation is clear and does not smell at all, which is wierd.
jackson
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Post by jackson »

acv = apple cider vinegar.

I've experienced fresh breath all week for the first time in over a decade and it's bliss. Even my morning breath is OK!
This is due to an antibiotic - metronidazole .
I'm sad that tomorrow is my last day of the pill, and so likely my last day of fresh breath.

I think my cause it likely either tonsil stones, Post nasal drip(which causes tonsil stones?) or acid reflux.

Like you have mentioned, I too realised that from reading around the internet, there really doesn't seem to be real cure for some of these things which kind of puts me at a complete loss!
Crystle
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Post by Crystle »

I wanted to let people know something that may work for PND. I have been trying multiple things at once so I can't be sure which one is doing the job. This is what I have been doing.
Salt and bicarb nasal irrigation tid
one lozenge of L.reuteris daily
a thorough tongue clean tid
xilitol chewing gum tid
Drinking 1.5 litres of water daily

I felt as if I had bacteria caught between my nose and throat and didn't want to put chlorexidine up my nose. I also don't like this product as it is harsh and it also stops working when you stop using it. So I have been using a nasal spray with propolis in it and letting it run from my nose down my throat. Propolis is a natural product from bees and is supposed to be antimicrobial.

For 2 days now (I stopped the nasal irrigation 2 days ago as I got water trapped in the sinus and ear), I have had no PND and the bad smell and taste is gone from my nose and mouth. I don't know if the BB is gone as I have not had anyone to test it on yet. But it would be very interesting if someone else could try the propolis nasal spray to see if it works for them. It is expensive. I paid 12 euro for a small vial, so if it is not this that is doing the trick, I don't want buy any more.

I wonder also if I have damaged the mucus lining of the nose and sinus. It is very dry now, no mucus at all, which makes me wonder if this is normal. All my life I have had mucus and now suddenly, I have none, which is a wierd feeling. Does anyone know if it is abnormal not to have any mucus at all?
jamesmcavoy

hi

Post by jamesmcavoy »

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Last edited by jamesmcavoy on Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Crystle
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Post by Crystle »

So, I am still suffering with this awful malady and nothing is working for me. I have tried the lemon juice and acv to 'cleanse' my system but it caused me to have painful stomach cramps at night so I have stopped it. The PND stopped when I did repeated nasal irrigation and the smell (that I can smell when sniffing; it smells something akin to sulfer and decay) went away but as my mucus dried up so much, I cut back on it and the mucus came back and the smell with it. I don't think I have a problem with tonsil stones. There is no smell when I touch the tonsils and no white spots. It is possible that they are hidden I suppose, but how do I know that? I only have one visible tonsil by the way.

I am now trying home made mouthwashes and toothpaste made from a base of hydrogen peroxide to try and oxidise my mouth. I have several questions that I need someone knowelgeable to answer for me please.
1. is it possible to permentantly change the oral microflora? Murat says that it is not possible to permanently kill the oral bacteria; but is it possible to permanently reduce or kill the anaerobic ones? if not, why do some people not have them and some not?

2. If I cannot permently change the flora, would constantly sucking on zinc lozenges kill the smell? Murat says that zinc instantly kills the smell for a few hours. This would at least be some form of solution to be able to interact socially without embarrassment.

3. Why did acv give me stomach cramps when it seems that huge numbers of people are in favour of this 'remedy'? would this be indicative of me being too acidic, and therefore be a potential cause of the BB?

4. Is hydrogen peroxide (I am using around a 2% solution) safe for long term use in the mouth?

I am truely grateful for any insight
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compor
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Post by compor »

These are just my thoughts:

1. I think it is possible to change oral microflora in favor of "good" bacteria but it requires dedication, and also if there is an underlying cause that should be fixed first.

2. You might try that but Dr. Murat's mouthwash (which contains zinc) mostly works on Type 1 cases. It doesn't work for me, for example.

3. Yes it looks very likely.

4. Hydrogen peroxide is generally considered as safe in low concentrations (<3%), but I remember reading that one should not use it for long terms. This is from wikipedia:
Hydrogen peroxide[edit]
Hydrogen peroxide can be used as an oxidizing mouthwash (e.g. Peroxyl, 1.5%).[38] It kills anearobic bacteria, and also has a mechanical cleansing action when it froths as it comes into contact with debris in mouth.[38] It is often used in the short term to treat acute necrotising ulcerative gingivitis.[38] Side effects with prolonged use might occur, including hypertrophy lingual papillae.[38]
helicopter99
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Post by helicopter99 »

Hi Crystle,

My opinion is you need to get to the root cause irrigating your nose is not doing that.

You mention you have metal fillings I to have got crazy high levels of mercury since improving this, restoring my gut things seem to be going back to normal and im getting happier again.
nikon
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Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:53 am

Post by nikon »

I have allergic rhinitis and with that, PND and also coated tongue. Doctor said that my sinuses were blocked, mucous gets stuck and that could be causing the allergy and the foul smell. I had my sinuses cleaned up (i dont remember the name of the procedure) and my tonsils removed.

What i notice after the procedure:
- i can clean my tongue at last, it can go on clean for days. Prior to the prcedure, no amount of brushing or scraping can clean my tongue, there will always be a coating. That made me to believe for a time that the coat on my tongue is whats giving off the smell, but the substance that i scrape off doesn`t smell at all.
- breath seems to have improved, i dont get those rude remarks or gestures as often as before. Before people would comment on how foul smelling my breath is, that is even if i dont open my mouth or even if i hold or inhale my breath. The smell can cover a room when its really bad. Oh and flies do get attracted by that smell.

Bb is not gone, but at least now i have a way of controlling or minimizing it unlike those 10 whole years before. Ahh all those wasted years because of this shit.

When i feel like im having an allergy or i get those reactions from people, I take my antihistamine and proton pump inhibitors as what my ent advised me. That seems to work. I also irrigate my sinuses as often as i could. I take peppermint tea too, that seems to flush the mucous on my throat and its also good on my stomach.

If there is a way to check the smell and determine the level of how bad it is, that will greatly help us. Licking the backside of your hand is not very effective. Ill still have to try those portable breath checkers.
helicopter99
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Post by helicopter99 »

You should try a food sensitivity test such as the MRT you will find certain foods, enviroment toxins are giving you a immune reaction hence causing you allergy.
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