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How I've managed my bad breath: going dairy and gluten free

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Obsessive
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Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:22 am

How I've managed my bad breath: going dairy and gluten free

Post by Obsessive »

Hey everyone, I just wanted to share my routine that has been highly effective in managing my BB for about a month now.

My symptoms since childhood: fecal breath, white tongue, sour taste, mild PND. According to an ex-girlfriend, you could only smell it when you got close, but I got teased about it a lot as a kid so I’m very self-conscious. I had bad oral hygiene as a kid, but now it’s become perfect in a fruitless attempt to eliminate bad breath. My sense of smell is very weak, and depending on how bad my PND is I have a constantly stuffy nose.

My routine that manages my bad breath: a gluten free and dairy free diet has been extremely effective for me. Dairy doesn’t come as a big surprise to me: I was so lactose intolerant as a kid that I was almost hospitalized after eating a little piece of pizza. Over time, I was able to eat dairy without having major symptoms, but I did end up with a ton of gas and bloating. Dairy has been easy to eliminate, since if I feel the need to cheat on that part, I can take a Lactaid pill, which at 10 cents a piece are very easy.

I have also been taking betaine HCL pills before meals, but I have no idea if they’re effective at all. I also do nasal irrigation in the morning, and along with the diet elimination this has cleared my nose up a LOT while reducing PND a little.

Gluten sensitivity has been something I’ve been skeptical about but decided to try. First, I switched to a very low carb diet with no gluten and was shocked at having a nearly pink tongue. So long as I drank a good amount of water and ate no gluten, I was left with no sour taste in my mouth — no official confirmation that my BB is gone, but white tongue and sour taste has always been correlated with BB for me.

Recently I have been trying to experiment: is it *really* gluten or maybe just low carb? It does seem that eating sugar gives me a little white tongue, but it’s pretty mild. And I ate a huge bag of potato chips (loaded with carbs) last night and woke up with almost no morning breath and white tongue. On the other hand, it’s probably not just low sugar consumption, since eating a big bowl of pasta gives me HORRIBLE bad breath and it also seems like I get headaches and foggy brain. Also, fruit does not seem to be a problem, and that’s loaded with sugar. Therefore I suspect gluten is really playing a role here, and it’s not just excess carbs or sugar.

Moving forward, I’d like to stay away from gluten as much as possible and experiment further to really ensure that gluten is the problem food. I’m still hoping for a magic bullet or big dose of antibiotics to kill it.

I truly hope some of this information helps! There are probably others out there who have suffered like me and this might be a solution for many of us. I know lots of you have tried elimination diets with no effect, but if you haven’t yet — give this a shot. I tried so many weird quack supplements that did absolutely nothing for me.
Last edited by Obsessive on Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.


Obsessive
Total Newbie
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:22 am

Post by Obsessive »

P.S. I'm trying to collect all the information I learned on here and from papers I've read on scholar.google.com in to a wiki. If you'd like to help, the link is here:

http://badbreath.wikia.com/

My philosophy is that anecdotes can be helpful, but scientific evidence is ideal. If there's not much science behind taking some random supplement for BB (chlorella, grapeseed extract, etc.), it shouldn't be touted as a magic bullet. And I also wanted to summarize the collective wisdom of the board for new people so they don't have to read through all the long threads.
StillHoping
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Posts: 441
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 4:29 am
Location: Calgary, AB
Canada

Post by StillHoping »

Good luck Obsessive, that great to hear that this has had a very positive effect for you? Although I suspect it might be the HCL pills that are making the difference for you, in which case your problem could be due to low stomach acid. Have you considered examining the difference if you stop taking the pills?

I too will be embarking on a gluten + dairy free diet, I have tried in the past but kept falling off the wagon. However since trying lemon water, I feel like it might work for me and my problem is due to low stomach acid. Im going to re-start the diet and continue with the lemon to see what happens.
2012: Wisdoms remov
2015: Tonsils+adenoids remov
2017: TMAU1 & 2 Negative
2019: Internal biopsies normal
2019: Completed SIBO treatment
2020: DigEnzymes help but side effects
+ low fodmap/GERD diet also help
Obsessive
Total Newbie
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:22 am

Post by Obsessive »

Hi StillHoping: to clarify, I've only used betaine hcl pills over the last couple of days, and not at every meal, so it has to be something else accounting for the last 2-3 weeks. I definitely am trying the betaine hcl because of your posts here, so thanks for all your research!

Gluten free is incredibly hard to maintain. I'm not sure it's sustainable, but it's probably not so bad to "cheat" in a controlled way. It would be great if the betaine HCL let me eat gluten, though!

May I ask why you're trying gluten free if the HCL works for you?
StillHoping
Sheriff
Posts: 441
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 4:29 am
Location: Calgary, AB
Canada

Post by StillHoping »

Ive actually never tried HCL; it was someone else who posted about them on here. I did try lemon water with every meal before my tonsil/adenoid surgery and noticed a difference right away! e.g. If I ate onions/ garlic, you could literally smell it on me for atleast 24 hours. But with lemon water, the smell did not linger after I ate.

In terms of gluten; my brother also has bb and it has made a difference for him. He was the one who recommended I changed my diet. I decided to do lemon water in addition because I found it very hard to stick to the diet long term. But you're right, maybe I will have cheat days on the weekends or something. If this is working for you, it definitely makes sense to stick with it instead.
2012: Wisdoms remov
2015: Tonsils+adenoids remov
2017: TMAU1 & 2 Negative
2019: Internal biopsies normal
2019: Completed SIBO treatment
2020: DigEnzymes help but side effects
+ low fodmap/GERD diet also help
Obsessive
Total Newbie
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:22 am

Post by Obsessive »

Oh yeah, I believe I'm thinking of poster "aDude." I'm skeptical of magic bullets and think dietary restrictions are so much more likely to be effective. They're just less popular because it's a constant struggle not to eat 90% of all foods.

I'm definitely not cured, though I might be reaching halitophobia if I'm not careful. The PND returns and I occasionally get a bad taste in my mouth if I don't drink enough water. But there's been an 80%+ reduction in my BB (estimation based on the sour taste in my mouth, since I can't smell it and I don't normally get reactions from people unless I'm pretty close).

So I will continue trying the Betaine HCL and see if I can get an even further reduction. But I may be looking at a lifetime of chicken and vegetables...
Obsessive
Total Newbie
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:22 am

Post by Obsessive »

Hello everyone, thought I would share a couple of recent experiences.

My breath seems to be managed pretty well by the gluten free/dairy free diet. Last night, I went celebrating with some friends where I had a burrito, cake, and beer plus some margaritas. I had some mild BB, but nothing extreme, despite tons of gluten, dairy, and alcohol. I didn't even brush going to sleep and woke up to pretty mild morning breath.

Tonight, I made the following recipe:
http://www.bettycrocker.com/recipes/slo ... 68db64039b
which is dairy and gluten free. A couple of hours later, I also had an apple, a bit of gin and Refreshe cream soda. Let me tell you, I'm currently having severe bloating and gas, and a severe case of white tongue with accompanying bad breath.

What the hell? It's probably not just the gin: I've had that before and not gotten these reactions.

In the cream soda, there is
-High Fructose Corn Syrup, Sodium Benzoate (a Preservative), Citric Acid, Caramel Color, Artificial and Natural Flavors

of which HFCS might be a culprit...but why would fructose in fruit be OK but HFCS cause this reaction?

Potential culprits in the slow cooker recipe are:
-onion
-garlic
-fish saurce
-golden curry paste
...

Oh jeez. As I was typing this, I realized that golden curry paste is a lot of wheat flour. Yikes! I'm dumb.

Now I'm curious why the curry paste seemed to do me in so badly, but the cake, beer, and burrito didn't give me such bad gas or BB last night. Maybe I was too tipsy to remember it?
Obsessive
Total Newbie
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:22 am

Post by Obsessive »

I had some more of the golden curry tonight to test my sensitivity. Mild tongue whitening, some gas, but nothing major.

Earlier in the day, I had been snacking on a bunch of fruit: a plum, apple, and a pear (I get a big box delivered to us every week). Well, the gas and bad breath went in to overdrive.

Could it be that FRUCTOSE is a major culprit? My gluten free diet that was working well also included no fructose since it was mostly chicken and vegetables and the occasional . On the other hand, I was getting serious BB when I ate bread, which has HFCS and gluten, so it was hard to distinguish.

I'm currently researching fructose malabsorption, SIBO, and low fodmap diets, while I continue to experiment with diet elimination to find what gives me serious gas and BB.
halitosisux
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Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:29 pm

Post by halitosisux »

I was going to say could it be relating to Fructose. You can get tested for that intolerance. I'm sure when I eat fruit it messes with my gut. I never eat a lot of fruit, but sometimes when I inadvertently go for a few days without eating any at all, I feel so much better inside.
halitosisux
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Posts: 3339
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:29 pm

Post by halitosisux »

Btw, please keep up updating us, even if it feels like you're talking to yourself at times. It's very interesting. Good luck and try not to do too many things at once though because you might miss the important.
Obsessive
Total Newbie
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:22 am

Post by Obsessive »

Thank you so much halitosisux. You are an incredibly helpful poster on this board. I was serious about building the site http://badbreath.wikia.com if you want to help -- PM me for an email address if you want to coordinate

(It's not meant to be a competitor to this site, but rather a place where we've collected our knowledge that's spread out over quite a few threads.)
halitosisux
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Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 1:29 pm

Post by halitosisux »

Thanks.. very kind of you. I don't have much spare time, but if I can help with info and stuff I'll be glad to help.. I had a quick look on your site when you first posted it, but there was a video type ad which crashed my browser so I didn't get to see it all. I don't know anything at all about building websites etc.
Obsessive
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Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:22 am

Post by Obsessive »

I didn't see that because I have ad-blocker, but that sucks a lot. Maybe I should look in to using a different site.

As an update: experimentation continues. Today I had a coffee with cream plus a fried chicken sandwich on a French roll. So much gluten and dairy! At the same time, I took a lactaid pill and some betaine HCL. White tongue did not appear, no sour taste, so BB seems managed despite all the gluten. I have had mild gas, though.

I'm planning on doing the double-blind fructose/cane sugar experiment tomorrow with a regular Coke vs a Coke Life (made with real sugar). Should be interesting!

If it is a fructose intolerance, that's good news because 1) it's in far fewer things than gluten 2) I can buy xylose isomerase to help me digest when I'm out enjoying a meal.

Also, I drank 3 beers last night and when I was home, my tongue was coated with white. I did not feel like my breath was bad (may have just smelled like beer), since I didn't have a sour taste in my mouth at all. Hard to tell completely without asking people.
Obsessive
Total Newbie
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jul 15, 2015 8:22 am

Post by Obsessive »

I recently performed the double blind test where I randomly selected between cane sugar Coke and HFCS Coke to see if my tongue would change. I randomly selected the can sugar Coke Life and my tongue remained pink and didn't develop a sour taste on my tongue.

I continue to feel increased bloating and white tongue whenever I have fructose (honey and watermelon today).

I also still think I get mild BB from gluten, since I had a chicken Cobb sandwich and felt a moderate sour taste on my tongue by the afternoon, but not enough to obsess about it.

Trying to see if the problem is mainly fructose or FODMAPs in general. So I'll have to do some tests with onions or cauliflower, maybe.

I also somewhat suspect I get BB from corn products.
jo317
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Joined: Wed May 17, 2017 6:55 pm

Re: How I've managed my bad breath: going dairy and gluten free

Post by jo317 »

The thing about food allergies is sometimes the reaction is not immediate. If you eat cake and feel fine, it very well could be because the reaction hasn’t happened yet. Also if it’s your first bite of gluten (or whatever the trigger is) you’re probably not going to have as bad of a reaction than if you ate gluten multiple days in a row. The sugar could be making our breath worse because the bacteria stuck in our pnd mucus is feeding on it, but the mucus itself is probably caused from an allergy. When I went to see an ENT all she did was prescribe me a allergy med and I thought I knew for sure she had no idea what she was talking about. Now I’m not so sure.
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