Tongue Coating Removal

[ExhaleSafely]

Hi All,

So recently I started looking more closely at the coating of the tongue as a source. I have (at least) intermittent, if not full time mothball type smelling breath, and I have been trying to figure out what's causing it.

This smell was exactly what my tonsil stones smelled of, so I had my tonsils and adenoids removed last September. Since then, I have had a reduction of smell, but still it is present, and, I believe it is intensified by post nasal drip and tongue coating.

I have really long tongue papilla, and a seemingly constant white coating. I asked my dentist what it was, and he thought it was mostly dead skin in my case. My hair and nails grow really quickly, so maybe there is some connection between the tongue surface and those other keratin based things.

So anyways, I figured if I can eliminate all that coating then I could remove the favorable environment for bacteria and mucus to stay around.

I tried a ton of stuff, and have been trying stuff for years. What I recently discovered that is workings is grapefruit seed extract. I know GSE is pretty commonly discussed on this forum, but maybe give it another chance if you already have bought it.

If I swish a some GSE and warm water around my mouth for a minute, then spit and have a look at my tongue, there are literally strings and clumps of that white coating that come off and are then easily removed via tongue scraper.

I've been swishing the GSE for about 3 days now and my tongue is nice and pink.

Maybe this info will help somewhere else here. Please give it a try and let me know if it works for you.

Thanks

[halitosisux]

If you can get hold of Chlorhexidine Digluconate, try using this to clean your tongue using a tongue cleaning brush. Try doing the same with Chlorine Dioxide and toothpaste containing zinc lactate (Oral-B). Use the chlorhexidine separately from any other oral products because they will reduce it's effectiveness. Buy a Waterpik and irrigate with warm salty water. Make SURE any fillings, crowns, root canals etc, are good. Don't just rely on a dentist to assure you. Get other dentist's opinions if there's any doubt. Eating a reduced carbohydrate diet and keeping well-hydrated reduces and thins mucus.
If you still have mothball smell after this, then you must have a pocket of infection somewhere (lungs, esophagus, sinuses, teeth or gums). Please keep updating and hope this helps.

[ExhaleSafely]

I don't have any dental work, and have never needed any. Not even a cavity, and my dentist says that my gums are in great shape too.

I trust him, as he is a very well trained guy (went to one of the best dental schools in the country), and I have been seeing him since I was a kid. He's very honest with me too, and backs up statements he makes to me with medical research (even pulls out books in front of me to quote). So anyways, I think I can rule out tooth related issues.

I do have Chlorhexidine mouthwash that I bought on eBay from the UK. When I was using it I thought it did help. However I stopped using it as my dentist spotted the black staining that it makes on your teeth.

I had a lung X ray three years ago. At that time I started noticing the mothball smell (and tonsil stones), and it came back clear. Since that time I had my tonsils and adenoids removed, so that eliminates another potential source. I have noticed that when I don't clean my tongue for a while the smell just builds and builds, so I think I'm on to something.

I will try that oral B toothpaste with zinc in combination with the GSE. I don't think I'll go back to the chlorhexidine though.

What is the mothball smell? does anyone else have experience with that smell? I'm guessing it's just bacterial decomposition of mucus and dead skin, but I really don't know. It's not the typical "fecal" that you hear of so much on the forum.

[halitosisux]

If I'm correct, that mothball smell is one of the three main foul-smelling chemicals commonly associated with BB. I have often smelled that particular odour on people with rotten teeth. I know someone who never had BB in the past, but since developing gum problems, they reek of it. The worst I've ever smelled it though, was on a guy with a lung infection. So, it is probably just a smell that commonly appears with infections. Clearly, you have neither of these, so maybe the odour is something difficult to detect in your nasal system and sinuses?

My tonsil stones had a very similar smell to that mothball odour, mixed in with a bit of horse shit smell (excuse the language there).

You haven't said if your tongue actually smells or not. You've only mentioned the appearance of coating. If your tongue does smells, then keep focusing on reducing this. Don't worry about chlorhexidine staining if you brush it onto your tongue with a brush. Any slight staining is easily scraped off.

[ExhaleSafely]

The tongue coating smells when it builds up. However, I can't say that I've noticed it smelling like straight up mothballs. It's sort of a mixture of generic foul and vinegar.

The only other things I can think of are sinus related or esophagus, but I use a neti pot often, and even do the flip turn method to ensure I'm getting the upper cavities. I do get heartburn. I am taking PPIs now, and go on and off PPIs depending on how good I am with keeping them stocked.

As for sinus stuff, I definitely have noticed the mothball smell after a night of drinking beer. I will wake up with a lot of mucus in my throat, and the mucus that's there is super thick.

I'm going to start using a humidifier in my bedroom and lay off beer for a while. Combine that with the neti pot and solid PPI use and maybe I can narrow it down further.

[halitosisux]

A neti pot, as I understand it, is for clearing mucus. There are issues that can occur in the sinuses which something like a neti pot would help with temporarily, but not deal at all with the underlying problem - in fact it's highly likely to exacerbate any underlying problem. You should definitely keep trying with the ENT and if you've never had an endoscopic examination of your stomach, you should. Small sacs or bulges can form along the esophagus which can trap food and cause a stench where trapped debris stagnates and rots.

Generic foul/vinegar smelling tongue is something that many of us may be needlessly obsessing with. Apparently, the presence of such odour on the tongue and in the saliva is normal up to a certain threshold. I can believe this because I have smelled this odour on some people's saliva, and yet their breath is fine. Once we're convinced we have bad breath, we go looking for the source, and it's too easy to start poking around and becoming fixated with every area that smells, when in reality it will have nothing to do with the cause of any actual BB. This applies to the tonsils too. Tonsil stones are not exclusive to BB sufferers. And how many of us have discovered BB unchanged after removal of tonsils, as an example.

Hope you manage to narrow it down eventually.

[ExhaleSafely]

Could you elaborate on what conditions may be worsened by neti pot use? I guess I've never heard of anything like that before. It would probably be beneficial to understand something that could be worsened by something I do regularly. I definitely don't want to make anything worse.
Thanks

[halitosisux]

Just think about it - your sinuses are cavities in your head. These cavities are lined with a very thin layer of mucous membrane which produces mucus to keep things moist and healthy. There are tiny hairs (cilia) that constantly vibrate and sweep this mucus away, out through tiny drainage openings. That's a healthy sinus. But imagine one that has been infected in the past, scarring and damaging this thin layer of lining. When a sinus infection doesn't resolve quickly, this infection will become chronic because of a sequence of events involving damage to these tissues and bone layers. Also, imagine a person with a deviated septum, or swollen turbinates or poor anatomy, causing restriction in the aspiration and drainage of a sinus. Can you now imagine purposely forcing water into such a space? It's a very big risk to take in my opinion. If nasal irrigation helps with odours, it may be because it clears the rest of the nasal cavity of stagnant and foul smelling mucus. Any underlying issue remains - with the risk of worsening if you give it the right conditions to. There are growths that can form in the sinuses that only surgery can shift. Biofilm masses, fungal growths tissue thickening, polyps, etc. Surgeons know about these things, but they generally won't take BB seriously enough to risk the surgery.

[halitosisux]

Incidentally, there is a person from this forum who was recently cured following surgical irrigation of his sinuses and a procedure to increase the size of his sinus drainage openings (I think they are called ostia). He had tried lots of different things in the past. He has since disappeared from the forum because of shit from "Atrial" - who still mocks his success. But you may want to search the forum to find his posts to see if you can make any connection to your own symptoms and circumstances.

[NC29]

The ostia drains the maxillary sinus into the middle meatus or cavity. The nasolacrimal duct drains into the inferior cavity. Hence if you blow your nose hard enough you get it in your eye and if you cry vice versa. If the said person abovr had maxillary sinus disease due to impaired ostia function then surgery would have worked well.

[halitosisux]

Yes, if you read through his posts it worked very well. There are some very interesting videos on YouTube on some of the things mentioned too.

[faithful1]

Hi All,

So recently I started looking more closely at the coating of the tongue as a source. I have (at least) intermittent, if not full time mothball type smelling breath, and I have been trying to figure out what's causing it.

This smell was exactly what my tonsil stones smelled of, so I had my tonsils and adenoids removed last September. Since then, I have had a reduction of smell, but still it is present, and, I believe it is intensified by post nasal drip and tongue coating.

I have really long tongue papilla, and a seemingly constant white coating. I asked my dentist what it was, and he thought it was mostly dead skin in my case. My hair and nails grow really quickly, so maybe there is some connection between the tongue surface and those other keratin based things.

So anyways, I figured if I can eliminate all that coating then I could remove the favorable environment for bacteria and mucus to stay around.

I tried a ton of stuff, and have been trying stuff for years. What I recently discovered that is workings is grapefruit seed extract. I know GSE is pretty commonly discussed on this forum, but maybe give it another chance if you already have bought it.

If I swish a some GSE and warm water around my mouth for a minute, then spit and have a look at my tongue, there are literally strings and clumps of that white coating that come off and are then easily removed via tongue scraper.

I've been swishing the GSE for about 3 days now and my tongue is nice and pink.

Maybe this info will help somewhere else here. Please give it a try and let me know if it works for you.

Thanks

Hi, thanks for sharing. How much GSE and how much water?

[ExhaleSafely]

I use just a small dixie cup and fill that about 1/4th the way up, probably in total it's one fluid oz of water. From there I put some drops of GSE in, maybe 2 - 4 total. I have a GSE extract which I think is stronger than the regular stuff (maybe not though, not totally sure).

I can confirm at this point that the tongue coating does in fact build on my tongue and start to smell. It gets thick in my case. after a while I can even start smelling it randomly throughout the day, and in addition to random whiffs, I will have really foul morning breath if the coating isn't removed.

I did an experiment where I stopped using my neti pot, and stopped getting my tongue really well. The coating did build up, and I was pulling thick mucus through the back opening between my sinus and throat regularly. Those days I had some frequent random whiffs and also really bad morning breath. I started back on the neti pot and got my tongue nice and clean over a 2 day period and now feel a whole lot better.